Whats the RIGHT speedometer

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Srivik
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Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Srivik »

Can anybody tellme what is the RIGHT/original speedometer for 1963 saloon 1098cc 4.55 diff ???
I need SN and TPM number if can ..

Better if the owners of such models can help me..



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Sleeper
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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Sleeper »

Here ...

http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/ID/Speedo.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John ;-)



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Srivik
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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

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Sleeper wrote:Here ...

http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/ID/Speedo.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John ;-)
I went Through this table
Not in this list..



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Mecanglais
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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Mecanglais »

Not sure about serial number but early 948 cars were 1504 TPM, they went on to 1525 TPM around 1960 if I remember rightly.



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Plin »

Glad to see others are answering your query as I cannot! But just wanted to say :D Welcome to the forum!



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Mecanglais
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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Mecanglais »

I meant to add, I don't think the 1098 was ever factory fitted with a 4.55 diff, I guess that your 1098 is a retrofit, you might not have been aware.
I do not know the serial numbers, but I would expect an early 1963 with 948 to have a gold faced Speedo with yellow 1/10 mile reel on the odometer, and a TPM of 1525.



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Srivik »

Hi chesney,
As per understanding, gearbox spinning at same speed ; ‘gear axle diff’ is the one determine the road speed and speedo corrected for it.. regardless 1098cc or 948cc.. morris only fitted either 4.22 or 4.55 from as per spare part book
So i believe
1504 is for 4.55 and 1376 is for 4.22 dif.....
i have to find out what is my actual diff fitted NOW.. then i can work on my Speedo ..

Correct me if im wrong..



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Srivik »

chesney wrote:I meant to add, I don't think the 1098 was ever factory fitted with a 4.55 diff, I guess that your 1098 is a retrofit, you might not have been aware.
I do not know the serial numbers, but I would expect an early 1963 with 948 to have a gold faced Speedo with yellow 1/10 mile reel on the odometer, and a TPM of 1525.
I got this information from factory certificate, its 4.55 Rear axle ratio for my 1098 1963 4 door saloon... ( unless its print error)



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Sleeper »

You're not far off..

4.55 : 4.22 is 8%

1504 : 1376 is 9%

But ideally you should start from measuring the indicated mile/speed against the actual mile/speed with a satnav ( or whatever )...

John ;-)



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Mecanglais »

Srivik wrote:Hi chesney,
As per understanding, gearbox spinning at same speed ; ‘gear axle diff’ is the one determine the road speed and speedo corrected for it.. regardless 1098cc or 948cc.. morris only fitted either 4.22 or 4.55 from as per spare part book
So i believe
1504 is for 4.55 and 1376 is for 4.22 dif.....
i have to find out what is my actual diff fitted NOW.. then i can work on my Speedo ..

Correct me if im wrong..
Yes, there is no difference in Speedo pinion drive (other than the early ones being brass, they are interchangeable). The Speedo is fundamentally the changeable variable to wheel speed.

The Potteries site, if nothing else, proves that both the 1504 or 1525 Speedo was used for the 4.55 diff,as I said earlier, I would have expected a post '60 saloon with 4.55 diff to have a 1525TPM Speedo, though a 1504 will read just as well, just read marginally 'faster'. None of them are 100% accurate anyway, they all overread, especially after 40/50/60 years of use, the hairsprings weaken and slacken. So it depends whether you want something that will work, or something that is original to yours, if the former either a 1504 or 1525 will work.

Your saloon will have either the 4.22 or 4.55 diff, the easiest way to tell is to look as the diff casing itself, if the filler plug is on the diff housing it is a 4.55 diff. If there is no filler plug on the diff housing, it should instead be on the rear of the axle, this is a 4.22 diff.

I have not heard of a factory saloon 1098 with 4.55 diff, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Srivik »

I dint expect to see 4.55 in that certificate.. (unless its print error) ,
I will check under my car whats fitted then i will know what diff im on.. thats brilliant idea..

i found other 1963 models / 1098 cc running on 1376 bronze (i guess its standard 4.22),
Im not particular if it reads accurate speed. I want to know what is original for my car.



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Mecanglais »

Gold faced 1376 Speedos are generally easy to recognise as they go up to 90MPH, not 80MPH as the early '4.55' Speedos did.
They were at an odd transitional period in that time, you may well have a 4.22 axle casing with the full plug in the rear casing yet a 4.55 diff with the fill plug in the diff housing.
I guess while they were changing over to the 1098 a few might have escaped with the early diff but I haven't heard of it, the 1098 came with the ribbed case gearbox, a different flywheel, backplate, clutch and other minor differences. Maybe checking out your gearbox as well (if it has a smooth casting it is a 948 type, it suggests it was originally) Although all the above components are (by and large) compatable I don't think that anyone at the factory would have been running around to try and find the above to fit an early gearbox to a 1098 engine when all the stuff was on the assembly line.



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Srivik »

Okey finally i got my answer,

I have the rear plug, buy as you say, The casing is same for series 3 to series 5, the teeth inside ( the diff rotor) could be different.
Only way to find is, open up the entire axle and start counting the rotor hahahahah
Or just live with it until i have to open the axle for any repair..

Attach a photo, red is series 5 green is series 3 , you can see the optional on the right side..
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49A595FB-3498-4A54-891C-8150418F6D16.jpeg (46.34 KiB) Viewed 197 times
49A595FB-3498-4A54-891C-8150418F6D16.jpeg



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Mecanglais »

Is the fill plug in the diff, axle casing or both? They are both about halfway up. The diff will be on the left hand side looking at the diff nose.

All 4.55 diffs had the filler plug on the diff housing, the only way you could have a 4.55 with a late (no filler) housing is if someone has put it in there, which seems like a fairly pointless exercise.

Or you can do it the more involved way, by jacking up one rear wheel, marking the prop shaft, turning the road wheel two revolutions and counting the number of turns the prop shaft makes.

They are commonly marked around the diff housing as well, 9/38 means nine teeth on the pinion and 38 teeth on the crown, 4.22 total ratio. 9/41 = 4.55.



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Re: Whats the RIGHT speedometer

Post by Srivik »

chesney wrote:Is the fill plug in the diff, axle casing or both? They are both about halfway up. The diff will be on the left hand side looking at the diff nose.

All 4.55 diffs had the filler plug on the diff housing, the only way you could have a 4.55 with a late (no filler) housing is if someone has put it in there, which seems like a fairly pointless exercise.

Or you can do it the more involved way, by jacking up one rear wheel, marking the prop shaft, turning the road wheel two revolutions and counting the number of turns the prop shaft makes.

They are commonly marked around the diff housing as well, 9/38 means nine teeth on the pinion and 38 teeth on the crown, 4.22 total ratio. 9/41 = 4.55.

Alright, my casing is for 4.22.. No extra filler around the casing. Photo attached.
The certificate says 4.55, i just hope factory dint fit the 41teeth during the manufacturing or they could be mistaken
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