Ital gearbox fitting.

Common upgrades - A-Series mods, brakes,wheels, handling, interior.
User avatar
midget
.
England
Posts: 111
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Wantage, Oxon

Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by midget »

Hi, have acquired a Marina box to go in with my newly built 1275 A+ engine, and is modified to fit in the Minor.
However although the bell housing has been correctly sliced around the starter area, I notice that the slave cylinder hoop has either been chopped down to reduce height, or it has been damaged. The slave will (maybe) still function ok, but despite mugging up on this subject beforehand cannot remember anyone suggesting that this had to be done? Do you need clearance in this area?
Any thoughts from someone who has some experience of completing this job will be appreciated.
BTW -----I do have another standard bellhousing, so just need to know if I should start again with this one.
Thanks


John

User avatar
midget
.
England
Posts: 111
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Wantage, Oxon

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by midget »

No response yet, so maybe a pic will help...
Attachments
IMG_20150309_190853.jpg
IMG_20150309_190853.jpg (184.44 KiB) Viewed 2326 times
IMG_20150309_190853.jpg


John

User avatar
Custard
.
Ireland
Posts: 2663
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Blackpool

Contribution Stars

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by Custard »

That looks like it has just been dropped and broken to me.

If I remember correctly from my Triumph Dolomite days the slave cylinder is not actually fastened to the bell housing but just sits there by pressure once it is all connected up.

To me there hardly looks enough left for that and what is left is going to be a lot weaker and could brake off at an inopportune moment.

If you have a spare I would use that.

Sean.



User avatar
midget
.
England
Posts: 111
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Wantage, Oxon

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by midget »

Yes, thats what I feared. There is a spring clip that holds the slave body in place,but I don't think it'll hold it now.
I'll chop the other one. As least I 've got a pattern to work to.


John

User avatar
austin
.
Posts: 293
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: north yorkshire

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by austin »

Just out of interest, what is the advantage of using a Marina or Ital box? Apparently the Marina used this Triumph derived box because it had synchro on first gear.

As an aside, re gearboxes - what is a Midget 1275 box worth nowadays?



User avatar
Custard
.
Ireland
Posts: 2663
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Blackpool

Contribution Stars

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by Custard »

If your engine is out of a Marina then no need to alter backplate, flywheel clutch etc as you take the engine gearbox and everything in between.

But you do have to sort out the clutch actuation, and probably the propshaft, which you don't if you retain the minor or midget box.

Not 100% sure but as it is a different rear axle on the Marina/Ital/Dolomite I expect the flange on the diff is different.

Sean.



User avatar
midget
.
England
Posts: 111
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Wantage, Oxon

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by midget »

Sorry to disagree with you Sean, but you have to modify starter motor position to fit into Minor, so backplate is changed, but flywheel/clutch ok.
Or, have I just wasted time and money on something which didn't need doing :oops:


John

User avatar
Custard
.
Ireland
Posts: 2663
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Blackpool

Contribution Stars

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by Custard »

Midget,

I was answering the advantage question to Austin so not sure if wires have got crossed along the way.

My understanding was that the majority of people fit the Marina engine by using a moggy backplate, which then means the 1098 flywheel redrilled for 6 holes mated to a moggy gearbox (or a ford type 9 with a bell housing on to the moggy pattern).

My setup is different as its not a Marina engine but a midget one and its a Toyota box with a bellhousing to match the moggy and therefore uses a midget or moggy backplate.

When I had my Dolomite I did not have a Minor so have not been able to compare side by side, but the Marina bell housing certainly has more bolts round it so I thought it would not mate up to the Moggy backplate.

Someone who has put one in complete may confirm, but I thought that if the Marina bellhousing was ground away along with part of the flange on the starter motor it all fit albeit a tight squeeze. But I could be wrong.

In general though the box is not considered that good, so people either modify to retain the Moggy one which means the floor and clutch pedal operation stay the same. Try and get a Midget one as it is a bit tougher but again floor and clutch unaltered. Or go for the Ford to get 5 speeds in which case the floor needs modifying, you need to sort out the clutch operation, and you may need to shorten the handbrake unless the remote on the gearbox has been shortened.

Also as so many have done the Ford route people like JLH can supply fibreglass floor panels, gearbox cross members and Ford to minor propshafts.

Sean.



User avatar
bmcecosse
Deceased Member
Deceased Member
Posts: 4397
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: ML9

Contribution Stars

MMO Annual Award

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by bmcecosse »

The Marina box is certainly not worth all the modifications/effort to fit it! Although - some have used the similar (identical?) Triumph box WITH overdrive, to reported good effect.


 









Image

User avatar
midget
.
England
Posts: 111
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Wantage, Oxon

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by midget »

bmcecosse wrote:The Marina box is certainly not worth all the modifications/effort to fit it! Although - some have used the similar (identical?) Triumph box WITH overdrive, to reported good effect.
Yes, that was (is) the plan Roy, Triumph overdrives are pretty scarce though, and apparently not a simple add on to a standard box.
But surely it has to an improvement on the 1098 box, particularly with Ital axle (3.9 diff) redrilled hubs and 14" wheels?
I picked up a whole running Ital so seems silly not to? And then there's the brakes!

Take your point about the redrilled Moggy flywheel/clutch Sean, but how you gonna bolt that to the Ital box as the bell housing is way different shape?


John

User avatar
Custard
.
Ireland
Posts: 2663
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Blackpool

Contribution Stars

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by Custard »

Midget,

You have confused me now.

When you wrote;

"Sorry to disagree with you Sean, but you have to modify starter motor position to fit into Minor, so backplate is changed, but flywheel/clutch ok.
Or, have I just wasted time and money on something which didn't need doing :oops:"

What backplate have you put on?

What flywheel is on?

Now you say;

"Take your point about the redrilled Moggy flywheel/clutch Sean, but how you gonna bolt that to the Ital box as the bell housing is way different shape?"

Which was my point before, if you want the Ital box then you need the ITAL backplate don't you, as it is the correct shape.

Sean.



User avatar
austin
.
Posts: 293
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: north yorkshire

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by austin »

Why must the Ital gearbox be an improvement on the Moggy 1098 box? Having driven cars with both those gearboxes I find little to fault the Moggy box. And I have snapped a shaft in the Triumph/Ital box in a 1500 Dolomite.

As for how to join a 1275 engine to an Ital box/bellhousing. You need the rear engine plate from a 1275 Marina.


And I'm still wondering what my 1275 Midget gearbox might be worth.



User avatar
Custard
.
Ireland
Posts: 2663
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Blackpool

Contribution Stars

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by Custard »

Gearbox is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

The more that is asked the smaller the gap to going Ford 5 speed so they tend to be worth more to someone wanting to keep fairly standard or a Midget owner.

I agree regarding the box and the engine too. But I had a 1500HL bought before I knew it was basically an overgrown herald. It had twin carbs as standard, I was into road rallies put the suspension off a scrap sprint on it and drove it like a poor mans Sprint. At least I wore it out before it rusted away. I still have the con rod that came out of the block somewhere.

Sean.



User avatar
midget
.
England
Posts: 111
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Wantage, Oxon

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by midget »

Sorry if I am causing confusion Sean, I'll start again.
To use Ital engine and box in Minor, you have to use a modified backplate( along with original Ital flywheel and clutch) which moves the position of the starter motor around from it's normal position in order to fit in Minor. The Ital bell housing also has to be modified to lose the original starter projection, (at the rear )which prevents fitting to Minor tunnel. I am in the process of doing this now, and on Monday will give pics to further explain.
The original question, from me, was the concern I had regarding the modified bell housing, which I had just got complete with Marina box to fit in, with my rebuilt engine, which was missing a section of the slave cylinder retaining hoop. I now will be modifying another Ital bell housing(with a complete slave retaining hoop) to the required shape.
Hope that makes it clear.


John

User avatar
Custard
.
Ireland
Posts: 2663
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Blackpool

Contribution Stars

Re: Ital gearbox fitting.

Post by Custard »

Much clearer now thanks.

Look forward to seeing the pictures.

Sean.



Post Reply