starter motor

Common upgrades - A-Series mods, brakes,wheels, handling, interior.

starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:05 pm

Hi all, having problems with my MGB engine moggy van. I seem to be destroying starter motors. My 3rd one has just given up. The pinion wont engage with the fly wheel. I pretty much followed what every one else who have don this and used an inertia starter spaced on the flange and ground a slight lead on the ring gear. To be fair the first starter I fitted was a new one that just fell apart. Chinese I think
Ive seen this on the search
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-MINOR- ... 2a3ad1f195
Says for Moggy but looks like a pre engaged motor. If pre engaged it would have the same problem as Im having. As always any advice gratefully received.
Thanks
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Re: starter motor

Postby Custard » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:58 am

What bit is getting destroyed?

The minor pinion sits to the gearbox side of the flywheel and comes forward to engage, has it got room to retreat back?

Is there too much sideways pressure on it when it is engaged?

A pre-engaged one would engage from the engine side of the flywheel and I agree that picture looks like a pre-engaged one which presumably either retreats into the lower housing when not engaged, or sticks out further when energised.

It also looks like the flange can be adjusted to sit the motor housing at any angle.

A bit dear to risk trashing though, I would want to understand exactly why the current ones are being destroyed.

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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:30 am

I agree with all that. It the pinion that's getting chewed up.
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Re: starter motor

Postby Custard » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:53 am

I seem to recall that there were some similar starters with different numbers of teeth on the pinion, hopefully some of the others with MGB engined minors will chip in.

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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:56 am

Yes there are 9 &10 tooth opinions and you can use either as I have.l think it where the pinion smashes in to the ring gear which hasn't got a lead in because it's coming from the back. Although I took the corners Off with the grinder it Mar not be enough. I've bought a new ring gear with the intention of fitting it backwards but that puts the lead on the wrong face. I'd be happy to pay for an expensive starter if it sorted the problem. A lot of people have now fitted mgb engines am I the only one with this problem?
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Re: starter motor

Postby plastic orange » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:33 pm

I'm sure I used a starter from a Riley 1.5 on mine which in turn I think is the same as a Minor. However, both my MGB engines were the earlier ones - 3 bearing race engine and I think a 1965 5 bearing. These may be different from later engines. You can use an earlier B series back plate I believe from an A60, riley 1.5 etc, which is smaller than the MGB item, but I'd guess you'd have to use the matching flywheel etc. Someone on an MG or A60 etc forum should be able to enlighten you.

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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:23 pm

As far s I can tell early MGBs had an inertia starter anyway. Ill look and see if an early fly wheel will fit that would sort it. There are people who have done the same as me because that's where I got the idea from
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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:01 pm

Turns out the High torque ones are pre engaged and because of the lead on the pinion it meshes with the back of the flywheel. Looks big though. The flange will spin through 360 degrees so might just fit.
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Re: starter motor

Postby bmcecosse » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:17 pm

Any Pre-engaged starters I have seen/worked with engage from the FRONT! Inertia starters always from the rear.... Your standard MGB ring gear will be intended for rear engagement - hence a pre-engaged won't work......for long..... :(
 









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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:51 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Any Pre-engaged starters I have seen/worked with engage from the FRONT! Inertia starters always from the rear.... Your standard MGB ring gear will be intended for rear engagement - hence a pre-engaged won't work......for long..... :(

Later MGBs have pre engaged starters "hence" it will work
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Re: starter motor

Postby bmcecosse » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:12 pm

IF you have the correct matching ring gear - hence the reason I said 'standard'...... :roll:
 









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Re: starter motor

Postby Custard » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:58 pm

All depends on what you call the back of the flywheel?

The clutch face often being called the front yet it faces the back of the car, and easy to call the back of the flywheel the part that faces the front of the car.

As I understand it the flywheel fitted is the later one for a pre-engaged starter, but as the later MGB pre engaged starter wont physically fit an inertia type is fitted and the ring gear has been chamfered on the rearward edge to provide a lead in for the pinion, but it hasn't worked and destroyed a few pinions.

Thinking about it was each tooth chamfered individually like the moggy on the sides of the teeth or the top edge, it could be damaging the pinion as it meshes because it never meshes properly or is meshing too well and too tight and being slow to release.

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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:27 pm

Custard wrote:All depends on what you call the back of the flywheel?

The clutch face often being called the front yet it faces the back of the car, and easy to call the back of the flywheel the part that faces the front of the car.

As I understand it the flywheel fitted is the later one for a pre-engaged starter, but as the later MGB pre engaged starter wont physically fit an inertia type is fitted and the ring gear has been chamfered on the rearward edge to provide a lead in for the pinion, but it hasn't worked and destroyed a few pinions.

Thinking about it was each tooth chamfered individually like the moggy on the sides of the teeth or the top edge, it could be damaging the pinion as it meshes because it never meshes properly or is meshing too well and too tight and being slow to release.

Sean.

Thanks for the reply. I just took the edge of the tooth off. The high torque motor is designed for use on a moggy. According to MOSS it has a pinion that will engage the Moggy flywheel with NO lead. It engages before it turns full speed. My plan would be to buy one and fit a new ring gear back to front so there would also be no lead therefor work ??? The mount flange can be adjusted to fit . My only concern is that the hole in the back plate is smaller than the moggys but I think looking at the HT motor the flange could be removed and machined down to fit. If I remember its about 4mm. Ive asked MOSS to supply some measurements then Ill give it ago. £180 ive wasted more than that before so no great shakes :oops:
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Re: starter motor

Postby bmcecosse » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:58 pm

I consider the front of the flywheel to be the clutch face..... Any pre-engaged starter I have seen (Mini and TR7) engages on chamfered fly teeth....
 









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Re: starter motor

Postby knockdolian » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:58 pm

Hi all, After the starter motor failing again with a new pinion fitted I took the engine out to see what was going on. Apart from the starter ring being a bit chewed up nothing looked very damaged. Even the pinion looked ok. I bought and fitted a new starter ring and the Morris Minor pre engaged starter motor. A bit of fettling and it fits. Not only does it fit it engages and sounds lovely. Hopeful problem solved and only £200 :shock: :D
Attachments
starter 001.JPG
The flange is adjustable. It had to be turned down by about 2mm to fit the MGB hole
starter 002.JPG
Tucks in nice.
starter 003.JPG
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