1955 Series 2 - clutch/brake pedal query + master cylinder

Rebuilding, adjusting, maintaining & alternatives
Hello all,

we have a 1955 Moggie that has undergone a fair few alterations by previous owners but - no documentation! Been rooting around the brakes today and we have a front disc brake conversion (Ford) with a remote servo. Brake and clutch pedals like to synchronise their movements - pulling up the carpets etc. reveals that (at the very least) the brake pedal is missing the correct return spring and has lost most of the bushing - it has an awful lot of lateral play.

So I'm looking at probably replacing the pedal shaft/clutch pedal combo and then either overhauling the brake pedal bushes or sticking a new pedal unit on (I see EMS do those) - the problem I foresee is that on this Moggie the clutch pedal sits immediately adjacent to the brake (on the later ones it's shifted left a bit so sits on the other side of the chassis rail) - lots of Googling has failed to tell me if the later clutch pedal/shaft is the same as the earlier one (other than spacers etc etc)

Can anybody enlighten me?

Also - master cylinder looks to be on it's last legs so will be replacing that (not overhauling as I have been bitten in the past by overhauling a worn unit) - question #2 - is it possible to purchase a master cylinder that has already been converted to the disc brakes (by removing inner seal) or do I just have to DIY it? (I've found mention of the purchase of just that but I cannot fins anybody selling one?)

Many thanks

Graeme
1955 Split Screen Saloon with later 1098 engine & type 9 gearbox
a rolling r********
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)

Are you sure?

Not being funny, but I cant see how you would get a clutch pedal inside the chassis along with the master cylinder and get it to work.

It normally it has an extension on it to connect to the linkage and rods to the gear box.

Is it still the standard gearbox?

Is it the standard rod operated clutch?

A picture may help as there is usually someone on here that will have seen something similar before.

Sean.
User avatar
Custard
.
 
Posts: 2368
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Blackpool
Awards: 5
Contributions 2012 (1) Contributions 2013 (1) Contributions 2016 (1) Contributions 2017 (1) Contributions 2018 (1)

Ireland (ie)

re master cylinder, I think JLH do one already set up for disc brakes, pm him he's on here,

you can change the whole brake /clutch pedal arrangement for the later type, I did this on my 55 convertible its all nuts and bolts etc no welding

A,
Image

When its done its done (for now)
Derv Turbo Power (Joosed)
User avatar
woodywoodchipper
.
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:11 pm
Location: up to my neck in dudu
Awards: 7
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) Contributions 2013 (1) Contributions 2015 (1) Contributions 2016 (1)
Contributions 2017 (1) Contributions 2018 (1)

United Kingdom (uk) UK Lancashire (lk)

Hi Woody - JLH have one on their site but it was marked out of stock - however Johnathan tells me by email that they do have some so I'll go down that route rather than buy a standard one and then pull it apart. I'm going to have to redo a load of the brake pipes so I'll likely buy a remote filler too from JLH too.
IMG_20170724_194434.jpg


Custard - The series 2 pedals are really quite 'squished' on this Moggies (1954/55) into the space that you'd normally just have the brake pedal. I've done a bit of digging and found that section EE6 of the 1970 Leyland Workshop Manual (14th Edition apparently!) answers my question - I'll try and pull the original shaft out to see if it can be salvaged or not (as I say at the very least the brake pedal needs rebushing).

Here's a phone photo of what we have here and the manual section..
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)

Capture.PNG
.. and here's the bits I need to source if that shaft is worn out:
1955 Split Screen Saloon with later 1098 engine & type 9 gearbox
a rolling r********
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)

GraemeT,

Thanks for that picture, never too old to learn something new.

Over the years I have owned a few and worked on more, but never one with that arrangement before.

Sean.
User avatar
Custard
.
 
Posts: 2368
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Blackpool
Awards: 5
Contributions 2012 (1) Contributions 2013 (1) Contributions 2016 (1) Contributions 2017 (1) Contributions 2018 (1)

Ireland (ie)

Hi Sean
It was a bit of a puzzle here too - t'missus had a 1964/65 Moggie for years and when she saw this one thought the pedals had been reassembled wrong as they were so close together (fortunately she has small feet :-)

I'll see if we can get the shaft out in on piece at the weekend (not holding my breath)

Graeme
1955 Split Screen Saloon with later 1098 engine & type 9 gearbox
a rolling r********
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)

A cotter pin holds the clutch pedal to the shaft, which looking at your pic may come out easy, put plenty eazit on it the day before,

all parts are available for conversion from ESM including brass bushes for the chassis leg if needed and replacement bush for brake pedal,

http://www.morrisminorspares.com/

Alan,
Image

When its done its done (for now)
Derv Turbo Power (Joosed)
User avatar
woodywoodchipper
.
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:11 pm
Location: up to my neck in dudu
Awards: 7
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) Contributions 2013 (1) Contributions 2015 (1) Contributions 2016 (1)
Contributions 2017 (1) Contributions 2018 (1)

United Kingdom (uk) UK Lancashire (lk)

Hi - happy day whacking cotter pin took me back to the days of my youth and Raleigh bikes....

OK - cotter pin out, shaft out - result is that the brake pedal is loose because:

1) bushing in pedal is worn off centre
2) bushing in o/s of chassis rail is either worn or
3) clutch/brake shaft is worn where it sits in the chassis rail.
4) I think there's a spacer missing as the brake pedal can move along the shaft 2 - 3 mm

Questions: is it worth trying to source a new shaft for the older type of pedals (quick Googling and I cannot find any though)?

How difficult is it to get a new chassis bush in there - I cannot find any online guides?

Thanks

Graeme
1955 Split Screen Saloon with later 1098 engine & type 9 gearbox
a rolling r********
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)

if the hole in chassis leg is ok, I just use a piece of 6mm plate with 14mm hole in it and 50mm x13mm bolt and use it like a vice to pull the bush into the leg,

you may need to clean the bush out after, I use white spirit and wet/dry 180 grit then a good greasing and slid pedal shaft in and make sure it moves freely

A,
Image

When its done its done (for now)
Derv Turbo Power (Joosed)
User avatar
woodywoodchipper
.
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:11 pm
Location: up to my neck in dudu
Awards: 7
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) Contributions 2013 (1) Contributions 2015 (1) Contributions 2016 (1)
Contributions 2017 (1) Contributions 2018 (1)

United Kingdom (uk) UK Lancashire (lk)

Hi - sounds like a sound method ( I do have a bigger version here for around 50mm BMW Mini bushes that would do the trick - never thought of that ) - chassis is fairly sound, I have tried drifting out the old bushes but that failed so I may have to either try pressing the old ones out (if I can find anything the correct OD) or cutting/gentle chisel.

Alternatively I have found that DMG & Ware stock the original clutch shaft so I may grab one of those and see if the new one shows as much play in that o/s chassis bush - the shaft I have just pulled is certainly not the same diameter for most of its length - if I go there then I'd adopt your method to rebush the barke pedal.

Mind you - comparing these mid 1950's pedals to the late 1960's on my old Land Rover - damned things are built to last, more metal in there than your average family saloon these days..
1955 Split Screen Saloon with later 1098 engine & type 9 gearbox
a rolling r********
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)

Success - finally got some dry weather... new 'old style' shaft is available from a couple of UK suppliers (made in Sri Lanka - no surprises there), new bushings pulled in as per advice above. New return spring fitted (original hook eye in the chassis is sound - result) and new master cylinder rod as old one was bent.
Went for a drive - unable to get out of first gear - new master cylinder rod had no free play [old one was well bent] (durrr) so left pressure in system all four brakes binding.
Once that was properly adjusted - bingo - both pedals move independently of each other, we have really good brakes with progression. Hopefully get a decent couple of days weather and we can replace/reroute the pipes.

Took him for a spin around in the rain - amazing how many people point and smile at a Moggie (never happens with the Berlingo!)
1955 Split Screen Saloon with later 1098 engine & type 9 gearbox
a rolling r********
GraemeT
.
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Wales (wl) UK Scotland (.j)


Return to Suspension, Steering & Brakes



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron