Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Rebuilding, adjusting, maintaining & alternatives

Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jollyroger » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:16 am

Hi, Car due MOT soon and on pre inspection the 4 shackle plates on the rear springs had all sheared. They are lengthened ones that I bought from a supplier a few years ago.
Just a warning to anyone else who has these ot check them. There was noting noticeable about the handling of the car to indicate there was anything wrong either.
Attachments
Shackles.JPG
jollyroger
.
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: Glasgow


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby Panky » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:23 am

Ouch :shock:
Image
User avatar
Panky
.
 
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:00 pm
Location: Cheshire

United Kingdom (uk) UK England (.g)

Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby emjay » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:17 pm

Tough little cars. You must have kept it well planted as to not "fall" out of the shackles. Yet, at some time there was enough side force to flex the ends in both directions to shear them. Off hand they look like the steel is very hard and the bent flange ends too soon. It's almost inline with the hole.

I had the main leave break in front of the axle and a knock developed on corners. I had no idea what it was, but didn't sound too serious. Then a while later while walking up to the car, I notice the rear wheel looked out of place. I drove home very carefully.
emjay
.
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:02 pm
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania, USA


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby Plin » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:28 pm

:? Goodness - thanks for the warning. Hope your car passes the MOT soon without further hiccups.
User avatar
Plin
.
 
Posts: 2993
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:05 pm
Location: North Hertfordshire
Awards: 9
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) Contributions 2013 (1) Contributions 2014 (1) Contributions 2015 (1)
Contributions 2016 (1) Contributions 2017 (1) MMO Annual Award 2016 (1) MMO Top Tester (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jonathon H » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:51 am

Just to add balance to this post, these are our longer shackle plates, and the first issue we have ever had with them. These longer shackles are normally sold to customers who have worn leaf springs in an attempt to give a bit more life to them.
The design of the longer shackle plates has been passed by our engineer so there is no cause for concern over the product. Often weak springs will bottom out even with a longer shackle, or the plates can be damaged on the inside face through over tightening , and on the outer face due to the same with the locking washer digging into the steel.
It would have been nice to have had a first hand look at these shackles so we could have assessed the likely cause of failure, rather than have alarmist comments posted on this forum.

Jonathon
M.D JLH Minor Restoration Ltd.
JLH MINOR RESTORATION LTD
www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk
Image
User avatar
jonathon H
Tuning Wizard
 
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Napton on the Hill
Awards: 3
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) MMO Annual Award Winner (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jonathon H » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:49 pm

Roger, I see that you have posted this warning on the MMOC board, which is getting slightly out of hand with random speculation. Unfortunately I have no means to explain the parts or position we hold as I cannot post on the MMOC message board.
I have contacted the MMOC to voice my concerns over the inflammatory heading and subsequent posts. I am awaiting a reply. If I were able to post on the MMOC I'd confidently answer any questions folk have, but I cannot , and the lynch mob mentality concerns me. Up to you what you do, but if it gets out of hand, the MMOC will be made very aware of my intent.
JLH MINOR RESTORATION LTD
www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk
Image
User avatar
jonathon H
Tuning Wizard
 
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Napton on the Hill
Awards: 3
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) MMO Annual Award Winner (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby BLOWNMM » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:28 am

Firstly it has not been yet established whether the plates were from JLH. Looking at them they appear to be about the same length as a standard plate. JLH claims they were supplied as longer plates. However it is obvious from the pics that the bent up sides are approximately the same length as the hole centres. An original plate has hole centres of 23/8” (60.325 mm.). The length of the bent up section on an original plate is 77 mm. This leaves the ends of the bent up section approximately 8.5 mm. beyond the hole centre. I would suggest that this was a deliberate design feature to prevent crack propagation as has been suggested on another forum. If the above is correct and the plates were supplied by JLH then I believe there is cause for concern about the claim that ‘there is no cause for concern over the product’ as stated by JLH, especially if these plates which failed were supplied by JLH and approved by their engineer. If they were in fact supplied by JLH I would suggest they look for a new engineer to approve non standard products. There may also be concern about the old 'we have never had an issue with them' statement.
Bob
User avatar
BLOWNMM
.
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:51 am

Australia (au) AUS Capital Terr (b.)

Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jonathon H » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:57 am

Just a few facts for you BlownMM
1. these are our shackle plates.
2 the were sold 6 years ago.
3 they are intended as a short term solution for worn springs, until the customer buys new springs.
4 they are not intended for modified cars, to give a jacked up look
5 they are longer in 5mm increments to the hole centres
6 they are the same gauge steel to the originals
7 this 'is' the first case of any failure or issue with this product
8 we stopped selling these parts about 4 years ago simply because they were a slow seller and expensive to produce.

Comments
1 you are incorrect in your assumption of sizing
2 these were longer plates, I know I sold them
3 the plates have been available for sale over the last 20 years, with no failures or complaints.
4 you are not privy to the reason for fitting these plates nor do you have information as to how this car was used, ie competition, rallies, road use.
5 You seem to imply that we do not care about our products, this is far from the truth as everything we manufacture is tested in the real world by us or via simulators
6In this instance it has come to light that the rear spring was 'rubbing against the inner wing' implication, springs misaligned front to rear, this allied to worn springs will compound the stresses felt at the shackle plates. If I had known this issue I would not have sold the plates in the first place
7 Just sometimes it would be prudent for you to find out the facts before offering a rather jaundiced opinion of both our products or my company, however you are of course, entitled to your opinion
8 We have taken the failure of these parts seriously and are looking at some old stock units we have here. I would like to see these failed units , so we can check for any signs of damage, wear etc and try and ascertain the cause of failure.
JLH MINOR RESTORATION LTD
www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk
Image
User avatar
jonathon H
Tuning Wizard
 
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Napton on the Hill
Awards: 3
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) MMO Annual Award Winner (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby BLOWNMM » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:10 am

It is obvious to anybody looking at the pics supplied that the bent over sides end at approx. the hole centres. In a standard plate this bent up section extends a further 8.5 mm. to provide strength against crack propagation and complete failure. As you have admitted you supplied these plates with this inferior design which should not have happened regardless of all of your other claims and inferences. This is fact and not guess work. There was no intended implication that I implied that you did not care about your products.
Bob
User avatar
BLOWNMM
.
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:51 am

Australia (au) AUS Capital Terr (b.)

Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby emjay » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:21 am

I'll just add in reading this subject on both forums,, there seems to be a discrepancy. The original poster said he has contacted the supplier, yet JLH indicates he hasn't. Perhaps there is a middle man. If in fact they are Jlh's, his firm should be able to evaluate the plates to determine the scoop of the issue.
emjay
.
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:02 pm
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania, USA


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jonathon H » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:29 am

Yes it is true that the folded sides are shorter than the originals. I'd have thought that we would have had previous failures, should this aspect be the cause of failure. But we have not, and I re state these are 'short term ' solutions for worn springs, they are not intended for long term use. Having said this, these have been used for 6 years before failure, and there are other factors which could have cause this failure i.e worn bushes allowing the plates to run against the shackle pin tube. Incorrectly machined shackle pins, , 'yes' ,there has been an issue with both the size and length of shank, plus variations in the threaded size either could be a contributory factor, An over tightened spring washer, cutting into the plate is yet another candidate.
The admitted issue with spring alignment could be the deciding factor in this case, but who knows without seeing the parts in the flesh and knowing the history of every inch of road on which this car has been driven, let alone any other discrepancies in the chassis alignment.
Its pure speculation with out the facts to go on.

I'd say this inference is enough to determine your angle on if we care or not. Inference without facts.
If they were in fact supplied by JLH I would suggest they look for a new engineer to approve non standard products. There may also be concern about the old 'we have never had an issue with them' statement.
Bob
JLH MINOR RESTORATION LTD
www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk
Image
User avatar
jonathon H
Tuning Wizard
 
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Napton on the Hill
Awards: 3
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) MMO Annual Award Winner (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jonathon H » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:33 am

Emjay

I have not stated that the customer 'has not contacted us', simply that I have not seen the plates in the flesh so that I can evaluate them. There is no middle man.
JLH MINOR RESTORATION LTD
www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk
Image
User avatar
jonathon H
Tuning Wizard
 
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Napton on the Hill
Awards: 3
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) MMO Annual Award Winner (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jollyroger » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:34 am

Hi,
My original post was to warn others who have these to check them. I never mentioned the name of the supplier in my post as I made contact with Jonathan separately. I put it on the other forum too in order to alert people to check them. It was not my intention to name and shame as it serves no purpose and it is others that are causing the alarm not myself. My car is used everyday and I have completed over 50,000 miles in 10 years and I have probably replaced every part at least once. I agree that some of the speculation is getting ridiculous. They were sold in good faith and fitted likewise.

Roger
jollyroger
.
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: Glasgow


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby jonathon H » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:50 am

Thankyou for your post Roger,
Unfortunately doing the 'right thing' and looking into a potential issue is not good enough for some keyboard warriors , who seem intent on making an issue regardless of what I say. So in this case I am not commenting anymore on this topic. :roll:
JLH MINOR RESTORATION LTD
www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk
Image
User avatar
jonathon H
Tuning Wizard
 
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Napton on the Hill
Awards: 3
Contributions 2011 (1) Contributions 2012 (1) MMO Annual Award Winner (1)


Re: Sheared shackle plates beware!!

Postby cardiffrob » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:45 pm

In support of JLH, I have to say that the quality of their products and repair works has, in my experience, exceeded that of many of the other specialists in the Morris world. We all have bad days and Jonathon seems to have much fewer of them than the other spares suppliers.

I'd be keen to get a closer photo of those links, if it was possible, Roger? It would be nice to know if it was crack propagation or side loads.

By the way, I've used Midget ones and they are like blocks of boiler plate in comparison to the original ones on the 1963 car I have here.
cardiffrob
.
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: Cardiff, like.



Return to Suspension, Steering & Brakes



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest