To Dip or not to Dip

Finishing, Windows, Hoods & Trav wood etc

To Dip or not to Dip

Postby Complete Pete » Thu May 08, 2014 5:16 pm

I am currently restoring a 1964 traveller for my wife's 50th in September, and I have reached a crossroad do I get the shell dipped to remove the rust, sealant, paint and so on or do I have it blasted the clean up what can be seen do I get my wire brush it and clean it with petrol.

I would be interested to here people's thoughts and hear of you experiences. The shell is in good condition as it passed an MOT a month ago, although it has quite a few repair patches which I am going to replace with new complete panels.

So if money was no object what would the preferred root be? Taking into account I need to complete the whole job by the end of August early September.

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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby badobsession » Thu May 08, 2014 5:33 pm

i have resprayed a few cars in the past and taking them back to bare metal is not always the best thing to do
some times it can be more hassle than it is worth ...that said it depends on the way you want and the money
you have to spend on the car .
no point spending thousands on a re spray for a car you want to use every day or are worrying about getting it damaged at a show

others may have other ideas but thats my 2p worth ...rub it down cut out the rust fill and spray on a sealer coat then prime then paint
job done .
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do what you like and like what you do ...

And life is to short to drive boring cars.
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby Complete Pete » Thu May 08, 2014 5:54 pm

Thanks for your thoughts :)
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby bmcecosse » Thu May 08, 2014 6:42 pm

I agree - just get on with it! You could lose many weeks with a dip or blast......... Get your mates round and give them each a wire brush..... :D
 









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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby MartinB » Thu May 08, 2014 8:38 pm

I had a Hillman Imp shell dipped a few years ago as it was going to be a historic race car.

When it was dipped the roof got distorted as I believe they slung it through the window apertures, obviously as it was withdrawn from the bath it was extremely heavy full of water which caused the distortion. Also, the seams kept weeping for ages. If you are having it dipped you must get it e-coated at the same time to stop corrosion in the seams.

Now I wouldn't bother getting it dipped and wished I hadn't got that one done either.

Blasting with walnut shells or another gentle media is much better I think although I haven't had one done myself like this.
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby plastic orange » Thu May 08, 2014 9:47 pm

I had my minor shell blasted and wouldn't do it again as it pockmarks the metal. I didn't get much distortion on the main shell, but doing a bonnet isn't a good move.
I've heard dipping causes problems with residue left in cavities.

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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby twincamman » Fri May 09, 2014 10:16 am

Take a look here, while being astonished by this guy's skills. Then read the links regarding dipping before deciding
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/ ... 2yqn-pwZyQ
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby austin » Fri May 09, 2014 1:06 pm

Dipping means you are not in control, and if it comes back primed you have no idea how clean they got it. And rusted sections revealed by dipping or blasting can then be welded, but really need dipping or blasting again!

Strip back to bare metal if there are too many coats of paint on the whole car, or if there are lots of tiny rust marks coming through the paint, but otherwise consider a respray without going all back to bare metal.

I am taking a body back to bare metal at the moment because there is too much old paint and some areas have lots of tiny rust marks coming through the paint. I considered dipping but decided to strip it myself. A flap disc in the grinder is easiest way I have found to get most of the paint off. And a twisted knot wire cup brush, again in the grinder, is good for mouldings, edges and rusty areas.

The next problem is how to treat any rusted areas, and then what primer to use. Lots of rust treatments available, and lots of primers, but not much information regarding which are compatible. I intend to use phosphoric acid, liberally washed off after a few hours, and a 2 pack epoxy primer.
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby plastic orange » Fri May 09, 2014 2:57 pm

That's the route I'd go next time.


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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby Complete Pete » Fri May 09, 2014 9:54 pm

The shell is in quite good condition and the body work is straight too. Its been hand painted at some point but agian not a bad job. I am trying to do a proper restoration so I am replacing both full floor pans as they have been repaired with about half a dozen flat repair patches, both outer sill/ steps again repaired in the past, rear boot panel front bumper mount and the engine bay pans both sides. I am also fitting new front and rear wings.

I have experience in restoring /modifying cars mostly Escort Mk1 as I've had 38 of them, but this was 20years ago and the only way of cleaning the shell then was petrol soaked rags, wire brushes a blow torch and loads of elbow grease or blasting which i to had an Escort done and wished i hadnt. The only problem is I only have till the end of June to have it ready for paint as it is booked in and they said they need it for two weeks. during which the engine and running gear gets recond and painted and axles and suspension cleaned powder coated and or painted. The new timber frame is booked in mid July to be fitted. July / August to fit the new interior and bolt it back together before my wife's birthday in September.

So time is of the essence I have a 4 week buffer for s#!t happens but that's it. So it looks like elbow grease. I have a super hot steam cleaner at work which I might have a go a blasting the underseal off with first. Job for during the week I think.

Has any one any recommendations for the best place for the panels, full floor pans, engine bay pans, rear boot floor,sill steps, front and rear wings and not sure what the panels called but I need to repair this section.

image.jpg
Bit behind the timber frame.


Thanks for the advise any volunteers to help :D
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby jonathon H » Sun May 11, 2014 10:36 am

Dipping is by far the most thorough way of removing rust and the car to bare metal. We used to use SPL but became concerned at their lack of care and procedure between dipping and E coating which led to acid being left in cavities and between joints. Pro Strip claim to offer a dip which becomes passive after a period of time, so should stop the rust issue, however they only spray prime the cars afterwards, and in my opinion this is no match for E coating.
Re the trav build. You really must fit the wood to the car before welding in major panels. The car should fit the wood and not the other way around as it will cause stress splits and pop open joints. In terms of panels, don't assume that they are correct. Measure carefully before removing panels and try to un pick then so you can compare them to the new replacements before fitting.
Support and brace the car well as these flimsy cars can move a significant amount if you don't.
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby austin » Sun May 11, 2014 2:31 pm

jonathon H wrote:Dipping is by far the most thorough way of removing rust and the car to bare metal.


Agreed Jonathan dipping can be best, but if for various reasons we choose not to dip, do you have any recommendations for any rust treatment products and primers?
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby backinblack96 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:11 am

Hey guys thought i mite be able to help on this subject.
i do a lot of rust repairs and body mods for guys doing classic cars hot rods
and custom cars.
at the moment i have a mini that been dipped a Volkswagen that been sandblasted
and a Morris minor that i am removing the paint my self
lets start with the Volkswagen. the sandblasting has been that hash that i am now having to build whole
new panels because there nothing left to weld to. not only that its pitted good panels to the point that
they need major work done to them , the guys budget for this reno was $20 000 ( AU ) with the sandblasting
and the work i done he up to $12 000 ( AU ) he now gone to far to give up he is now looking at maybe
$25 000 to $30 000 to get this back on the road.

Now for the mini at a cost of $4000 (AU) for the chemical dip it has clearly come out much better but the liquid chemical gets into every hole and it brings out rust holes were you may not have seen.
like were rust is eating the panel from the inside to out .
This has proven to be a much better option and i have had know problems welding in new panels.
this is a quick and good solution the dipping an E coat took 2 weeks. if you have time restraints and can find someone that can do it for you in the right manner and do not do extra damage. "shop around."

last of all the Morrie if you have the time and would rather spend your money on nice things for your car
i recommend doing it you self i use a product call strip it disc that fit on a angle grinder or a drill you should be able
to get them from a hardware store cost a bout $14.00 (AU) the only thing you just don't work in one spot to long or you will heat the steel up and it will warp. this way you can see all areas that need fixing as you go the can be marked
photographed for latter repair. i did from l/h front door around the back end to r/h front door and it took about 4 hours at a cost of $28.00 and this will give you clean, and undamaged steel to work with.
But i would recommend the you put a layer of etch primer over it a soon as you can.
i hope this helps :D
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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby bmcecosse » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:36 am

It would be good to have an update on the original thread - where the Trav was going to be finished by September!
 









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Re: To Dip or not to Dip

Postby ukfactotum » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:27 pm

Pete - like you I'm restoring a Traveller (1968) although it sounds as though the body work on mine is considerably worse, it's been stored in a draughty barn for some 8 or 9 years and rust is appearing through the paintwork, particularly on the roof.

I've decided to blast mine and after much thought Im considering using garnet as a media - opinion has it that it's less harsh that sand. Only today I found the following supplier in Peterborough http://www.airblast.co.uk/blast-media-types.html and was actually going to contact them tomorrow for advice. I'm happy to feedback their thoughts if it helps?

Jonathan - I was interested to read your comments re removing the wood before welding - every post I've read indicates it best to leave the wood until welding (and strength is restored to the car) is complete? I'd love to know other peoples thoughts on this but rather that Hijack Pete's thread I'll post a new one?

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