Repairing the floor edge

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Repairing the floor edge

Postby newadventuresofarthur » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:34 pm

Does anyone have any photographs of them repairing the floor edge? As you can see, I have a slight issue with rust...

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(i'm referring to the bit circled in red - the bit in blue is some dodgy panel welded to hide the rot from the MOT man I suspect).

Looking at it closely, it seems that the metal that has rotten away (the lower sill is it called??) was actually pressed from the same piece of metal as the floor. The section I'm referring to is the one that sort of forms the underside of the inner sill, and is half-supported by the crossmember (well - not on MINE! :))

The replacement floor panels dont seem to have this extra section on, and was wondering if there was anywhere that did them, and if anyone had any photos of their repairs.

I've had a look on ESM, and Tom Roy, and I dont THINK either of these seem to do this panel (just the outersill) - though I may be wrong/looking at the wrong place.

Any thoughts?
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Postby old english white » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:53 pm

The section outlined in red is I think listed by Bull Motif as the "inner undersill"?  Part no. RP 134.  As you say, it was originally pressed as part of the floor pan.  It is a fairly easy part to replace although I'd suggest that you remove the bolt-on sill rail and kick panel first and probably repair the bottom of the inner boxing panel so that it is at least attached at the bottom!  Once these repairs are completed you can rustproof the whole area inside and out and bolt the sill rail back on :)  - unless you want to go further of course.
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Postby old english white » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:56 pm

Apologies - looking again I can see that you have already removed the sill rail so you are ahead of me :)  and have probably had the opportunity to inspect the boxing panel etc!
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Postby snowmanbill » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:01 pm

Phil, this is published on BM's website and helps explain


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Postby MickEssex » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:09 pm

The boxing panel looks kaput in your photo too Phil.
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Postby bmcecosse » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:10 pm

Looks like you need them ALL.  MAke sure the car doesn't buckle in the middle when you do the job - some bracing across the door frame would be a good idea.
 









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Postby newadventuresofarthur » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:31 pm

ok chaps, thanks for the comments. The "upper sill???" is fine (though you can't actually see it in my photo, and yes the boxing section is kaput (though it looks worse looking through the floor :lol:).

Yes, I am definitley going to give it some bracing. Time and effort spent here, will pay off later when the car's done.

What's peoples thoughts on the order of work, as it seems like a bit of a chicken/egg scenario to me...

I was thinking, using the upper/inner sill to brace the car (upwards toward the top of the door aperture, and probably to the opposite side of the car too), then removing the B post, replacing the box section (though actually - it may be repairable and could save hassle and maintain strength if I can brace with the B post), then renewing the floor edge, and replacing the outer under sill. Doing that on both sides of the car, and then replacing the cross-member once both sills are back to solid metal (the x/member has gone beyond the chassis legs, and I need full chassis legs anyway).

Which brings me onto a different question actually - is it best to renew the chassis legs first, THEN the crossmember, or the other way around, or is there no difference?

I was thinking that if I changed the crossmember first, I could "simply"  :roll: locate it by butting it up against the existing chassis legs (obviously checking it was central etc), and then mark where the original chassislegs were on the replaced crossmember, before I removed them (hopefully making it easier to locate the replacements).

...it wouldn't be an achievement unless there was a challenge :D
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Postby newadventuresofarthur » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:18 pm

Does anyone know if the crossmember is welded to the inner undersill (there is a perfect step on the crossmember end as if it should), or is it just welded to the pan, and is not attached to the sill??
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Postby MickEssex » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:34 pm

When I did mine I welded the sill to the cross member, I figured it wouldn't hurt and it didn't look finished without it. Hope this helps Phil. :)
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Postby newadventuresofarthur » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:09 am

Yeah, thanks. I've looked at a few other peoples repairs and they generally all do the same.

I'll probably weld it to the sill, but was wondering if anyone knew what it was when "factory fresh"?
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Postby Morrisand944Man » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:50 am

1a) Before you cut anything off, measure EVERYTHING! brace the gap. I brace between the dash next to the screen pillar and the B (and c pillars if a 4-door) pillar. This is so the door can still be re-fitted to check the gap.

1b) Measure the distance from boxing plate to outer sill edge at the front and rear of the door aperture.

2) Drill out boxing panel spot welds and remove boxing panel, and using 1mm discs on grinder, cut off the floor edge panels and the sill outer edge panel.

3) You should not have just the inner sill step between the A and B pillars. A good opportunity to clean up and paint the inner sill step, or make good any repairs- using thicker gauge steel 1.8 or 2mm. Spray any areas to be overlapped with Zinc weld through spray.

4) First piece I would weld in is the boxing panel.

Punch or drill holes every inch in the top of the new sill boxing panel and plug weld this to the lip of the inner sill step. You can also punch holes in the lower lip of the boxing panel to enable plug welding to the rest of the sill. Apply zinc weld through spray (before welding) to any overlaps such as between the boxing panel and lip of the inner sill step.

4 1/2) Prepare the lower sill panels. Wipe with a cloth soaked in cellulose thinners. If the black paint comes off your panels have been painted in cheap shipping primer. Remove this and paint with decent primer (zinc weld through where panels are to be welded. At this point punch or drill holes ~ every inch on the inner flange of the outer sill panel to enable plug welding later on.

5) Then, once the boxing panel is in, tack weld the outer sill edge to it- tack it in with reference to the measurements taken in step (1b)  and re-fit the sill covers and sill finisher channel, close the door to check that the sill finisher channel is flush with the lower edge of the door. There is also a large overlap on the floor edge panels to allow for adjustment of the sill and so the floor edge panel will meet the floor. Cut off most of this flat overlap, leaving a 1/2" lip. Punch/ drill holes in this lip to later enable plug welding to the floor. (some might argue that the edge should be lap welded to the floor. Again, apply zinc spray where the floor edge panel will overlap the floor.

6) The channel in the floor edge panel should be re-formed so it is a "squarer" profile and the lip can butt up better to the lower lip of the boxing panel and the inner lip of the Outer sill edge panel. (My interpretation of Jonothan's comments).

7) Fully weld in the outer sill panel to the boxing panel (plug welds and seam welds).

8) Plug/ seam weld floor edge sill panel to floor at the inside and sill outer panel/boxing panel on its outside. Also plug/ seam weld the sill outer edge panel to the A pillar.

8 1/2) This is a good time to fit the new jacking point at the end of the centre crossmember. A small rectangle of 2mm plate may be needed to be welded vertically so the jacking point and outer sill panels meet without any gaps.

9) Grind smooth any welds, prime (I use zinc primer), seam seal any seams and welds, paint (I use chassis black for the sills) - can also use stone chip paint on any areas that might be blasted by water and stones, such as the parts of the sill near the wheel arches. Then re-paint the stone chip paint with more chassis black. Finally, when dry, cavity wax can be applied inside the new sill structure and underbody wax outside the sill structure.

Final Thoughts.

I like to save the inner sill step, if possible as this undoubtedly helps the car keep its shape, but when rust has appeared you generally need to replace all the rest of the sill panels for a decent job.

If the floor is also bad/rusty/cracked, fit all the rest of the sill pieces, except the floor edge sill panel, then fit new floors, weld them to the inner sill step and finally fit the floor edge/ sill panel. This order of assembly is necessary because the floor is sandwiched between the inner sill step and the floor edge panel.

A decent standard of welding is needed to effect these repairs. In particularly, one needs to be proficient at plug welding to ensure one makes strong plug welds.

I'm hoping Jonothan and any other decent professional reading this will jump in and make some suggestions/ corrections.

I have described the front part of the sill repair, the rear repairs are similar, except one has to cut the rear floor edge panel to butt up to any front spring hanger repair plates that may have been fitted.


I'm about to do this job on my 4-door, so I will write this up later in full, with pictures as a "Sills, How To Guide" on this forum, and possibly on t'other forum as well.

Who knows, "Morris Minor Restoration"- the book, film and stage play may soon follow :wink:
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Postby newadventuresofarthur » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:31 pm

Morrisand944Man,

YOU

ARE

A

LEGEND

:D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D

This how to guide is simply awesome, and really easy to understand!

Sreiously, thanks for taking the time to write up such a concise set of instructions. I can't thank you enough!!!!

Will look forward to your post.

BTW, you going to weld the cross-member to the floor-edge repair?
Whether its got tits or tyres, it'll give you trouble.
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Postby Morrisand944Man » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:52 pm

Wow! Thanks for the appreciation. That post was a first stab at the guide- there may be some errors in it, and it is subject to professional scrutiny. I will publish an illustrated version complete with corrections and a little more detail.

As for the crossmember, yes, the floor edge has to be welded to it along its rear edge for the front floor edge panel- well spotted. This type of feedback will help make the "sills guide" better.
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Postby woodywoodchipper » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:35 pm

morris944man,

it all sounds good to me well done,

Alan.
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Postby jonathon H » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:46 pm

Just one or two extras to add to John's briefing on replacing sills etc. Its much easier to explain with pics.
If replacing the boxing panel it will have often corroded behind the hinge pillar and C pillar or rear 1/4 on saloons with 2 doors. Do not be tempted to cur at the hinge pillar B post and C post or !/4 and simply patch in these parts of the boxing panel. The strength of the sills rely on its construction and to repair piece meal will not return the strength to this area.
1. Flitch and pillar cut away to show extent of rot and allow the boxing plate to be let in

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2 The floor edge panels are poorly formed and will require work to make a sharp U shaped chanel with sharp corners rather than the sloppy section presented as standard. You will notice that the front and rear floor edge panels do not meet correctly at the X member end. We self tap these panels into position , make a linking plate between them , then remove the front and rear (tacked together ) and fully weld them off the car. Then refit as one piece with self tappers.
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Floor edge panels are all drilled with 8mm holes for plug welding and the edges are seamed on the floor. Do not be tempted to edge weld the sill and floor edge panels these should again be plug welded and cleaned up as John says using weld through zinc spray. Infact we clean down the panels and spray all faces with zinc weld through
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