Marina 1275 or MG Midget 1275 engine?

Side valve, 803, 948, 1098., 1275 and Vizard mods

Marina 1275 or MG Midget 1275 engine?

Postby Triumph66 » Wed May 08, 2013 8:06 am

I am looking at upgrading the engine for my van which has its original 1098 engine. Is there a difference between these two engines? I know they are both A Series engines but I guess the MG engine is more souped up?  Which one would you go for. Are there alternatives engines  (apart from the Fiat one?) Cheers
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Postby chesney » Wed May 08, 2013 8:40 am

There are some differences between the Marina and the MG 1275. The Marina uses a different front plate, needing different mountings (or use Minor frontplate), gearbox needs notching or engine lowering at the mounts and the starter motor needs to be moved to clear the 'chassis'. Also the oil filter is different, and I'm not sure but you may need to make clearance on the battery tray to accept the heater valve. At the front you need to make sure the fan can clear everything, not sure if the Marina has the can on the timing cover.
I don't think any is better than the other performance wise, but if you can find an A+ from an Ital, that's worth going for.
Alternatives, Ford Zetec, Ford Crossflow, Diesel options as well, Peugeot etc. Have a look around the forum, plenty to think about.
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Postby MM » Wed May 08, 2013 11:12 am

The MG Midget engine is more or less a direct bolt-in swap (other than being slightly longer - you may need to bend the battery tray lip a little to clear the heater valve), and will fit straight to the Minor gearbox, although the matching close-ratio Midget gearbox has better-suited ratios and is a bit stronger, having needle roller bearings instead of plain bush type.

Note also, the Midget engine has a diaphragm clutch which is heavier to operate than the Minors, so you may want to fit a hydraulic clutch actuator kit, available for around £100, to make it easier to operate.

The Midget engine also has an EN16T Tuftrided crank and Cooper 'S' conrods, whereas the Marina one is a flow-cast, spheroidal graphite cast iron crank - not as strong.

Both, however, give similar power outputs in standard tune;

Marina 1275cc: 60 hp (45 kW) at 5250 rpm and 69 ft·lbf (94 Nm) at 2500 rpm

MG Midget 1275cc: 65 hp (48 kW) at 6000 rpm and 72 lbf·ft (98 Nm) at 3000 rpm.

So, the MG Midget engine is the easiest swap, however, if you fit a Marina gearbox, you will gain the advantage of synchromesh on 1st gear, and a stronger if bulkier and heavier cast iron Triumph-based gearbox.

There are a good many alternative engine/gearbox combinations that can be made to fit a Minor, but they usually require alot of fabrication and machining work to fit.
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Postby Big Al » Wed May 08, 2013 12:46 pm

How about some simple thinking to this?

I take it you might need a little more poke when doing your rounds with the van. Is it too slow top end for the trips you take or too sluggish with the equipment you haul?

Is the 'original' engine a low compression van engine or a saloon replacement? This alone could make a difference I believe. My pick-up has a low compression engine, will pull loads but poor top end speed. My daughter's saloon has a standard engine, good top speed but wouldn't pull much weight up and down hills.

Go for the standard engine/running gear that suits your needs, could be a simpler answer.
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Postby bmcecosse » Wed May 08, 2013 12:48 pm

Spridget engine uses con-rods 'like' the Cooper S ones - but made with inferior steel....Dimensionaly they are the same  - but the real S rods (AEG 177) are very much sought after because they are stronger.  The Marina/Ital engines use the larger diameter big ends (like all but S 1275 Minis)  - this supposedly to compensate in part for not having the superior  EN 40B  crankshaft of the Cooper S.
 









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Postby Triumph66 » Wed May 08, 2013 7:07 pm

Thanks eveyone who fed back on this topic. Generally I am happy with the standard set up but baulk at going on the dul carriageway due to lack of top speed as it's a low compression engine. Defintely food for thought.
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Postby woodywoodchipper » Wed May 08, 2013 7:24 pm

do you know what diff is in the van????

as big al says put a high comp 1098 in and change diff to a saloon one,

it will still carry weight and give a better top speed of around 60mph crusing, so more than suitable for dual carriage ways, with some power in reserve,

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Postby Triumph66 » Wed May 08, 2013 9:08 pm

I think it's the diff is the standard van ratio one.  I will make some enquiries about this process. Cheers
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Postby bmcecosse » Wed May 08, 2013 9:29 pm

My 1098 cruises easily at the legal limit ..........just sort out the engine you have !  :wink:  :D
 









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Postby austin » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:42 pm

I appreciate this thread is months old, but this might be useful to someone. Another important difference between the 1275 Midget engine and the 1275 Marina engine has not yet been mentioned.

The diameter of the flange, part of the crankshaft, where the flywheel bolts on to, is a different diameter.  Both have 6 bolts, but the Marina crankshaft has a larger flange which will not fit in the recess of a Midget flywheel. And as the Marina flywheel is bigger it will not fit in the bell-housing of a Midget or Minor gearbox.

To mate the Marina engine with a Midget or Minor gearbox means machining a flywheel to fit.
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Postby MM » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:44 pm

Welcome to the MMO, austin - good point, well made!
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Postby bmcecosse » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Welcome 'austin' - all well known re the flywheels.  Common mod is to drill extra holes in the 1098 flywheel - and use that on the Marina crank.
 









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Postby austin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:50 am

Yes, well known, but in this thread no mention of the larger diameter flange. From memory, does the Minor flywheel have a recess to locate on the crank? If not, then size of flange won't matter.
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Postby bmcecosse » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:56 am

No recess - so the bolts need to be 'fitted' to make sure the flywheel is held firmly true on the flange.  It's not ideal - but it works.
 









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